I believe that these revolutions in the ME and Europe are color revolutions, that are adopted by NGOs like freedom house and George Soros and other US organisations; Also who were believed to be behind the revolution in Serbia back in October 2000. Do you think that these revolutions would result in a chain reaction, which could -somehow- lead to a WWIII ?
I believe all you just mentioned is an attempt to create as many neo-liberal american style puppets as possible; the kind of countries without opinion, always in support of U.S agenda, the kind of countries who would send troops to Afghanistan and Iraq although they would have never heard about them. i believe its more in this imperial neo-colonial vision which is based more on soft power rather than hard hammering. You know after the cold war, there is few opposition to the U.S model, as the new emerging countries (BRIC & others) focus more on economic interests and not on creating a challenging model. the U.S model is almost the only one on the scene now and its exportable.
about Soros and the coloured revolution theory, u may like to take a look:http://anarchitext.wordpress.com/category/soros-files/ .
concerning freedom house and its ******** activists, i will provide some stuff later.
But let me also confirm something: whatever plots have been planned in the U.S pentagon or secretary of state offices, the people revolted bcz they had enough. many plots have been running for years, yet they havent succeeded at this moment except bcz the egyptians chose to revolt at this moment and act this way in tahrir (for many reasons: because they had enough, because they were inspired by tunisia and because they wanted to change)
so to sum up: some people plot, organize activists which helps, sometimes and not always, starting a mobilization. just the initiation but not the sustainability or the success. iran wasn't sustainable and eastern europe wasn't always successful.
From my point of view, I see that the ME country leaders are all dictator puppets of the US and their policies are influenced, if not, dictated by them. See this, how about pushing the ME leaders and their policies in a direction from one side, forcing these countries in debt, corrupting education, depriving people off their civil rights. On the other hand, generating a spark or initiative from below through activists by attracting them towards promoting their rights and peaceful demonstration; thus both of the parties clash at a certain point in time. That means they created both the "cause" and "effect" which produces a perfectly controlled environment to proceed with their plot, plus addressing mind's logic to throw away the idea of someone backing up those revolts as they seem logical to happen automatically without intervention. Moreover, in June 2006 in Tel Aviv U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice introduced the term "New Middle East" and "Constructive Chaos" by saying "constructive chaos to continue to allow for a "new Middle East" to surface"..Maybe the US institutions backing up those revolts may not have full control, but they certainly have alternative tactics by which, some of them will fulfill the strategy they introduces about the new middle east. Thanks for the link, I have been following Anarchitext since his first blog post and I like how he analyzes and figures out connections between several key persons involved in the current events. Although, people attacked his "Great Deception" video on youtube and viewed him as a conspiracy theorist
I believe there is this double track you just explained, but in another way. there are the republicans, and precisely the Bush administration and his Rice, and there are the democrats. the republicans launched in the GME and the democratization campaign (forced like in Iraq and soft through their sneaky funnel NGO's think tanks,..etc(http://ned.org/where-we-work/middle-east-and-northern-africa/Egypt)).
the democrats trying to get rid of the bad reputation of the forced democratization, focused more on the soft activist oriented approach. they changed the Rice staff except three, amongst which Jared Cohen: a kid who toured the middle east and concluded that "youth is the greatest opposition force", so he organized an alliance for youth movements, gathered them in a summit, founded google ideas,...etc. they also tried to improve the performance of the bush admin. strategy (read this if interested: http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/events/2008/0501_arab_democracy/20080501_freedom.pdf , tamara wittes was nominated in the secretary of state staff), all while taking in consideration their sacred interest.
one of the efforts of such reform was to take control of the situation after democratization so that the hamas experience wont be repeated and this can be done by leashing their honorbale figures like el baradei, hamzawi and others leading the fight aganist the dark forces of islamization.
quite a scenario, huh? lol. probably that makes us all conspiracy theorists. what do u think?
(i think between an islamist oriental oppressive project and a colonial western abusive project, egypt is lost. i dont know if u r egyptian or not, but we r in mass need for a pure egyptian realist organized project, maybe thats what we shall all focus on)
Correct me if I'm wrong, you mean that the double track is alternating the harsh democratization approach of the republicans -represented by the Bush administration- with a more " soft activist oriented approach" which complies with the democrats. But both tracks with the same vision and objectives. But, if that is the situation we have, then conspiracy is not a theory anymore. BTW, I'm Egyptian. So what is your idea about "a pure egyptian realist organized project" as u mentioned ? How it could be implemented ? and what are the chances of success putting into consideration the poor education, lack of political and cultural awareness of the vast majority of Egyptians
yes the explanation is right. its a feeling that gets enforced when i read in wikileaks (S E C R E T SECTION 01 OF 02 CAIRO 000524 ) about the "modernization" they want for the egyptian army and then i find it said exactly by el baradei in an interview (http://www.ahram.org.eg/Al%20Mashhad%20Al%20Syiassy/News/73325.aspx). what the fuck? why an army who has the enemy next door, is supposed to give up its one to one fight doctrine and focus on crap in the interest of america. these are changes that israel itself would never do. and this is just one thing on a list that makes me worry. anyway, so yes i believe there is this ugly thing going on.
about the project, well. lets agree that what egypt lacks is a long term national project, something on the scale of tens if not a hundred years. something whose main focus is this country's sovereignty and glory and not its insertion in an oriental empire or an occidental empire , simply a great prosperous sovereign egyptian empire.
my vision is that such a project isn't the kind of projects u would develop on the public level. its a bit elitist, not in the economic sense, but i mean its amongst a few qualified patriots who have the capactiy to plan, recruit, guide and implement on a long term. the founders of the project need to have the dedication and commitment of the islamists and the organization and foreseeing capacity of the occidentalists. for the moment, i believe it shall be a discrete non ideological pragmatic project whose implementation is organized in terms of mid & short term plans. of course, everything is subject to change upon discussion with co-founders.
the implementation of the project is mainly about playing the power game. this game is in the form of a pyramid shaped diagram constituted of three mini cycles. the two in the base are: a profit cycle, related to economic activities and profit generation (business community);
ideas cycle, related to creating, spreading and circulating notions, concepts, theories that guide and others that justify(think tanks, academies and media)
and then at the top decision cycle; related to turning the theories into reality, using the concepts, exchanging advantages with the profit cycle,..etc
(if u want, i can publish a diagram explaining exactly the power game and how i see the exact relations and exchanges between the various cycles.) in order for this project to succeed, it has to build its own and/or invade the three main cycles, starting from the base pillars and up to the pyramid's top.
this is a brief outline of the project. don't forget that all great achievements started as imaginary outlines. lol. anyway, what do u think? how do u evaluate it and whats your proposals?
Who am I to evaluate you? :D It seems that you are well experienced in politics. I'm just a beginner who stopped by to share some thoughts and enrich my political background. Lately, I found that I haven't been into politics and events around me happen to be moving at an incredible pace. I hope you didn't find out you're wasting your time with an amateur. From my very modest point of view, I see that your idea is challenging and introduces a well-balanced and controlled mix of Islamists and Occidentalists. You know, It seems promising as this mix is unique, unlike the parties under the spot who are adopting merely a classic stances and ideology following a certain political example without any alteration, that ought to be crucial and vital, as this example has to comply with the countries demographics, psycho-graphics and heritage which is Country-Dependant. The point about being discrete and involving elitists, how that would impact society with the concepts and theories introduced, while the project is limited to elitists as you mentioned. I know that the idea is still developing and not completely crystallized, but in order to impact society on the economic and ideological level. You should have the means to communicate with industrialists, decision-makers and mass media. I mean that the point of realistic implementation will inevitably involve the public at some point. I guess what I am saying is non-sense..lol..I guess publishing diagrams and illustrations could make the idea more vivid.
lol, i understand if the post-revolution atmosphere turned u off, bcz i think it turned me off too. with every one talking about and debating everything, el mawdoo3 b2a a3dat bawabeen (with all respect lel bawabeen). well, in fact i believe neither islamists nor liberals would be interested to join bcz each has his organization which well represents him and fight fiercely for their ideological causes. so i will just borrow their values of dedication, from the one side, and the forward planning, from the other side. this "egyptian project" is mainly for egyptians who believes in egypt as a project itself and not in it as a part of a bigger plan. imagine with me if i just stood up and said people, the two main political wings are nonsense, they both seek to exploit us for bigger reasons and interests, lets do a plan for our self. i would be thrown with eggs. lol.
so i don't intend to start like a party or any of the traditional structures, there are already so many of them. i wish founding bases first; with few thinking heads believing in the cause, building structures and ideas, to be later filled with and adopted by people. as u said, the public will be involved at some point but probably not the starting steps, maybe in 50 years or something. lol
by the way, u seem like u have a strong back ground in politics, and what u say is not non sense. and what i like most about this discussion is that it forces me to discover the project. its good to explain myself, understand its drawbacks and justify its different aspects, healthy exercise. u r definitely contributing to its formation. so keep it up and bring whatever thoughts, proposals or constructive chaos (oops i mean criticism ) u have. and of course i would like to know what u think not only about the project but about any other subject.
hi, it has a month since we last spoke and i promised to publish a diagram about the power game. i know its too late, lol. but sorry, due to academic obligations, i didnt have time to do so earlier. anyway, i published a diagram on the home page. its how i see things. would be glad to know ur feedback
10 comments:
I believe that these revolutions in the ME and Europe are color revolutions, that are adopted by NGOs like freedom house and George Soros and other US organisations; Also who were believed to be behind the revolution in Serbia back in October 2000. Do you think that these revolutions would result in a chain reaction, which could -somehow- lead to a WWIII ?
I believe all you just mentioned is an attempt to create as many neo-liberal american style puppets as possible; the kind of countries without opinion, always in support of U.S agenda, the kind of countries who would send troops to Afghanistan and Iraq although they would have never heard about them. i believe its more in this imperial neo-colonial vision which is based more on soft power rather than hard hammering.
You know after the cold war, there is few opposition to the U.S model, as the new emerging countries (BRIC & others) focus more on economic interests and not on creating a challenging model. the U.S model is almost the only one on the scene now and its exportable.
about Soros and the coloured revolution theory, u may like to take a look:http://anarchitext.wordpress.com/category/soros-files/ .
concerning freedom house and its ******** activists, i will provide some stuff later.
But let me also confirm something: whatever plots have been planned in the U.S pentagon or secretary of state offices, the people revolted bcz they had enough. many plots have been running for years, yet they havent succeeded at this moment except bcz the egyptians chose to revolt at this moment and act this way in tahrir (for many reasons: because they had enough, because they were inspired by tunisia and because they wanted to change)
so to sum up: some people plot, organize activists which helps, sometimes and not always, starting a mobilization. just the initiation but not the sustainability or the success. iran wasn't sustainable and eastern europe wasn't always successful.
what about u? what do u think?
From my point of view, I see that the ME country leaders are all dictator puppets of the US and their policies are influenced, if not, dictated by them. See this, how about pushing the ME leaders and their policies in a direction from one side, forcing these countries in debt, corrupting education, depriving people off their civil rights. On the other hand, generating a spark or initiative from below through activists by attracting them towards promoting their rights and peaceful demonstration; thus both of the parties clash at a certain point in time. That means they created both the "cause" and "effect" which produces a perfectly controlled environment to proceed with their plot, plus addressing mind's logic to throw away the idea of someone backing up those revolts as they seem logical to happen automatically without intervention. Moreover, in June 2006 in Tel Aviv U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice introduced the term "New Middle East" and "Constructive Chaos" by saying "constructive chaos to continue to allow for a "new Middle East" to surface"..Maybe the US institutions backing up those revolts may not have full control, but they certainly have alternative tactics by which, some of them will fulfill the strategy they introduces about the new middle east.
Thanks for the link, I have been following Anarchitext since his first blog post and I like how he analyzes and figures out connections between several key persons involved in the current events. Although, people attacked his "Great Deception" video on youtube and viewed him as a conspiracy theorist
I believe there is this double track you just explained, but in another way. there are the republicans, and precisely the Bush administration and his Rice, and there are the democrats. the republicans launched in the GME and the democratization campaign (forced like in Iraq and soft through their sneaky funnel NGO's think tanks,..etc(http://ned.org/where-we-work/middle-east-and-northern-africa/Egypt)).
the democrats trying to get rid of the bad reputation of the forced democratization, focused more on the soft activist oriented approach. they changed the Rice staff except three, amongst which Jared Cohen: a kid who toured the middle east and concluded that "youth is the greatest opposition force", so he organized an alliance for youth movements, gathered them in a summit, founded google ideas,...etc.
they also tried to improve the performance of the bush admin. strategy (read this if interested: http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/events/2008/0501_arab_democracy/20080501_freedom.pdf , tamara wittes was nominated in the secretary of state staff), all while taking in consideration their sacred interest.
one of the efforts of such reform was to take control of the situation after democratization so that the hamas experience wont be repeated and this can be done by leashing their honorbale figures like el baradei, hamzawi and others leading the fight aganist the dark forces of islamization.
quite a scenario, huh? lol. probably that makes us all conspiracy theorists. what do u think?
(i think between an islamist oriental oppressive project and a colonial western abusive project, egypt is lost. i dont know if u r egyptian or not, but we r in mass need for a pure egyptian realist organized project, maybe thats what we shall all focus on)
Correct me if I'm wrong, you mean that the double track is alternating the harsh democratization approach of the republicans -represented by the Bush administration- with a more " soft activist oriented approach" which complies with the democrats. But both tracks with the same vision and objectives. But, if that is the situation we have, then conspiracy is not a theory anymore. BTW, I'm Egyptian.
So what is your idea about "a pure egyptian realist organized project" as u mentioned ? How it could be implemented ? and what are the chances of success putting into consideration the poor education, lack of political and cultural awareness of the vast majority of Egyptians
yes the explanation is right. its a feeling that gets enforced when i read in wikileaks (S E C R E T SECTION 01 OF 02 CAIRO 000524 ) about the "modernization" they want for the egyptian army and then i find it said exactly by el baradei in an interview (http://www.ahram.org.eg/Al%20Mashhad%20Al%20Syiassy/News/73325.aspx). what the fuck? why an army who has the enemy next door, is supposed to give up its one to one fight doctrine and focus on crap in the interest of america. these are changes that israel itself would never do. and this is just one thing on a list that makes me worry. anyway, so yes i believe there is this ugly thing going on.
about the project, well. lets agree that what egypt lacks is a long term national project, something on the scale of tens if not a hundred years. something whose main focus is this country's sovereignty and glory and not its insertion in an oriental empire or an occidental empire , simply a great prosperous sovereign egyptian empire.
my vision is that such a project isn't the kind of projects u would develop on the public level. its a bit elitist, not in the economic sense, but i mean its amongst a few qualified patriots who have the capactiy to plan, recruit, guide and implement on a long term. the founders of the project need to have the dedication and commitment of the islamists and the organization and foreseeing capacity of the occidentalists. for the moment, i believe it shall be a discrete non ideological pragmatic project whose implementation is organized in terms of mid & short term plans.
of course, everything is subject to change upon discussion with co-founders.
the implementation of the project is mainly about playing the power game. this game is in the form of a pyramid shaped diagram constituted of three mini cycles. the two in the base are:
a profit cycle, related to economic activities and profit generation (business community);
ideas cycle, related to creating, spreading and circulating notions, concepts, theories that guide and others that justify(think tanks, academies and media)
and then at the top
decision cycle; related to turning the theories into reality, using the concepts, exchanging advantages with the profit cycle,..etc
(if u want, i can publish a diagram explaining exactly the power game and how i see the exact relations and exchanges between the various cycles.)
in order for this project to succeed, it has to build its own and/or invade the three main cycles, starting from the base pillars and up to the pyramid's top.
this is a brief outline of the project. don't forget that all great achievements started as imaginary outlines. lol.
anyway, what do u think? how do u evaluate it and whats your proposals?
Who am I to evaluate you? :D It seems that you are well experienced in politics. I'm just a beginner who stopped by to share some thoughts and enrich my political background. Lately, I found that I haven't been into politics and events around me happen to be moving at an incredible pace. I hope you didn't find out you're wasting your time with an amateur.
From my very modest point of view, I see that your idea is challenging and introduces a well-balanced and controlled mix of Islamists and Occidentalists. You know, It seems promising as this mix is unique, unlike the parties under the spot who are adopting merely a classic stances and ideology following a certain political example without any alteration, that ought to be crucial and vital, as this example has to comply with the countries demographics, psycho-graphics and heritage which is Country-Dependant.
The point about being discrete and involving elitists, how that would impact society with the concepts and theories introduced, while the project is limited to elitists as you mentioned. I know that the idea is still developing and not completely crystallized, but in order to impact society on the economic and ideological level. You should have the means to communicate with industrialists, decision-makers and mass media. I mean that the point of realistic implementation will inevitably involve the public at some point.
I guess what I am saying is non-sense..lol..I guess publishing diagrams and illustrations could make the idea more vivid.
lol, i understand if the post-revolution atmosphere turned u off, bcz i think it turned me off too. with every one talking about and debating everything, el mawdoo3 b2a a3dat bawabeen (with all respect lel bawabeen).
well, in fact i believe neither islamists nor liberals would be interested to join bcz each has his organization which well represents him and fight fiercely for their ideological causes. so i will just borrow their values of dedication, from the one side, and the forward planning, from the other side. this "egyptian project" is mainly for egyptians who believes in egypt as a project itself and not in it as a part of a bigger plan.
imagine with me if i just stood up and said people, the two main political wings are nonsense, they both seek to exploit us for bigger reasons and interests, lets do a plan for our self. i would be thrown with eggs. lol.
so i don't intend to start like a party or any of the traditional structures, there are already so many of them. i wish founding bases first; with few thinking heads believing in the cause, building structures and ideas, to be later filled with and adopted by people. as u said, the public will be involved at some point but probably not the starting steps, maybe in 50 years or something. lol
by the way, u seem like u have a strong back ground in politics, and what u say is not non sense. and what i like most about this discussion is that it forces me to discover the project. its good to explain myself, understand its drawbacks and justify its different aspects, healthy exercise. u r definitely contributing to its formation. so keep it up and bring whatever thoughts, proposals or constructive chaos (oops i mean criticism ) u have. and of course i would like to know what u think not only about the project but about any other subject.
P.S: i will publish some diagrams soon.
hi,
it has a month since we last spoke and i promised to publish a diagram about the power game.
i know its too late, lol. but sorry, due to academic obligations, i didnt have time to do so earlier.
anyway, i published a diagram on the home page. its how i see things. would be glad to know ur feedback
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